[00:00:00] Speaker 3: This is Outfoxed, the podcast brought to you by hunter.io, the trusted B2B lead generation platform built for every professional. Get ready for no playbooks, no posturing, and no egos. Your host is Hunter, CEO, Matt Tharp, and his guest today is Christy Jones, the founder of the Sales Acceleration Group.
[00:00:20] Speaker 3: Let's get into it.
[00:00:21] Speaker: into it. Well, we're here with Kristie Jones. Kristie, welcome to Outfoxed.
[00:00:27] Matt: Really excited to pick your brain, because there's a lot that you cover just in your personal brand, but I think your book especially, that's gonna really work well for the Outfoxed audience that we're still developing. So like, if you're new, there's not a bunch of backstory that you need to know to catch up on Outfoxed, you're here, you're in the right place.
[00:00:49] Matt: Kristie, I'd love it if you just introduce yourself and I would especially love it if you could lean in on, like, what made you decide that this was the focal point for [00:01:00] your career? Because you've wrapped a lot around some really interesting central themes, and I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about those.
[00:01:06] Kristie: Sure Matt, thanks so much for having me. I'm pretty, transparent about the fact that I am doing consulting as a general, profession, as a result of being, I say fired, my mother would prefer to be that I not use that word. She was like, it was a reorg. I was like, well, okay, but I lost my job. I lost my job back in 2016 and I had, was on the hunt for a new, VP of sales or sales leadership role.
[00:01:35] Kristie: When I say the universe conspired to push me in this direction. It just, a bunch of weird things happened, and I also say when the universe speaks, you should listen. Consulting's always been of interest to me, but I still had a child in school, in high school, and so I thought in my brain, I had thought that it was gonna require travel.
[00:01:53] Kristie: And so I didn't wanna miss those last couple of years of high school before he went off to college and wasn't sure I would ever see him again. [00:02:00] And so I, but things started happening, calls started coming in, people who didn't know that I had, was in the process of losing my job
[00:02:09] Kristie: were calling and asking about things and for help in ways that they had never asked before. And so, before I had gotten a three months, grace period basically. So they said, we're gonna blow your team up here in St. Louis and rebuild it in Phoenix, Arizona under the marketing umbrella instead of under the sales umbrella.
[00:02:26] Kristie: I was leading a SDR team of 13 and they said, if you'll keep the boat afloat for three months, we'll pay you three months severance. And, you know, being the financial girl that I am, that sounded like a good gig. They also were kind enough to say, we know you're gonna have to be looking for new opportunities.
[00:02:41] Kristie: So as long as you show up to the office, every day for a little bit, that'd be great. But before that three months had expired, I had started a consulting business and I had three clients. And so like I was off to the races. The rest is a little bit of history. But I would say over that last about 10 years, I definitely [00:03:00] leaned into and I had, I'd kind of grown up in B2B SaaS startups,
[00:03:04] Kristie: and then at some point I'd done bootstrapped and then I went to VC backed. And I say, I got the VC backed bug. And I really love the VC world, but at some point it took me a while, to really get comfortable saying, Hey, I do B2B SaaS startups, one to 5 million in revenue in general. That's my swim lane.
[00:03:25] Kristie: These are my people. and this is my expertise. So, I call it, I say you need to get small to go big.
[00:03:32] Matt: I have a similar thing, which is, sometimes you do need to slow down to speed up. I find that that while maybe, trite tends to actually be true a lot,
[00:03:41] Matt: I a hundred percent agree with that. Yes.
[00:03:44] Kristie: So you know that, and when I got comfortable with that, again, sometimes you have to get uncomfortable right before things start to fall into place. But I resisted it for a while.
[00:03:54] Kristie: But the fact of the matter is there are thousands and thousands of sales trainers, thousands and [00:04:00] thousands of sales coaches, thousands of people who do sales. Workshops and those type of things and really I didn't think, like at the end of the day, I would admittedly say I don't think I'm bringing anything super unique to the table in that area, but I do bring something unique to the table in the startup world.
[00:04:16] Kristie: Particularly helping people move from founder-led selling to building out their first sales team is my sweet spot. And so, that just, when I leaned into that and got comfortable with it and changed my LinkedIn, profile and, really started writing content around those type of things, then I became the person whose name was on everybody's tongue when they were struggling,
[00:04:38] Kristie: right? Who should I talk to? VCs and founders alike, but a lot of my business came from VCs early on, and you do some good work there. They've got a big portfolio. I call that the one to many strategy if you can get one good channel partner, right? And I was able to get a few good channel partners that had good portfolios.
[00:04:54] Kristie: So I also think that a lot of sales professionals need to get small to go big and understand what [00:05:00] their superpowers are and what they do better than other people. And then find jobs that match that versus just trying to find a job.
[00:05:07] Matt: I love that. I think there's been a lot of focus on that in the last, I wanna say five years, but it could be a little bit longer than that. But just this idea that, so like early in my career when I was growing up in business and it was like I felt a lot of pressure to be good at things I wasn't good at.
[00:05:23] Matt: And I remember so many mentors and people around me early in my career trying to like. Make me more well-rounded, and all of that was great. I love learning and I like challenging myself, but somewhere in the last five or so years, there's been a shift to, I think, a better story around actually thinning yourself out isn't doing yourself any favors, and actually focusing in on
[00:05:45] Matt: what you're uniquely talented at and like finding your differentiator. We do it with businesses. Why not do it with ourselves? Like how, what were some of the techniques or what were some of the things that you used to figure out what that, sweet spot was in a way that didn't make you [00:06:00] feel like you were eliminating opportunities?
[00:06:02] Matt: Because I think that's what a lot of people struggle with, is they don't wanna say no to things and they wanna be opportunistic, but they are struggling to figure out how to do that while still focusing more how, like what are some of the tricks you found?
[00:06:14] Kristie: I don't know that, I found a mentor that was trick number one.
[00:06:18] Matt: That's a good one.
[00:06:19] Kristie: Who really pressured me, right? I reached out to her, she is a social, she was a social selling expert and in a group that I, a group of female consultants that I belong to. And I reached out to her and said, Hey, like I wanna update my LinkedIn profile and some of the things about my, I wanted to look, jazzier and can you help me?
[00:06:36] Kristie: And she said yes. And as we were going through and trying to update things finally she just said to me, I don't understand why you're not saying I help B2B startup founders.
[00:06:46] Kristie: And I said, well, there, like that's a pretty small universe. And like there's lots of other things I could be doing and like, it's not like I'm not qualified to work with Fortune 500 companies. Right. And she said, but you've never done it. Do you wanna do it? And I go, [00:07:00] well, no.
[00:07:00] Kristie: She goes, why don't you just lean into this and become the B2B SaaS startup consultant and see what happens. And it was terrifying, right? Because when I lived in the world of TAM, SAM, SOM right?
[00:07:14] Kristie: And I was like, oh, that's really, I'm like, yeah, the pond's very small. And the fact of the matter is the pond isn't that small. Right? Right. And, it is how I had grown up. The very first B2B SaaS company I worked in, I did, by the way, have a Fortune 500 experience for eight years. and then my first job after that was a company with about 20 employees
[00:07:37] Kristie: and I spent 10 years there helping him double his revenue, the owner, and it was bootstrapped before the next job was my first VC backed company. But I had been living in that world. And, but it seemed so, which, I loved and was super comfortable. I left Fortune 500 and people said, what are you gonna do?
[00:07:56] Kristie: Well, what are you gonna look for? Are you gonna look for another, I was at, I was working for [00:08:00] a Macy's and I, working for another retail company and I said, oh heck no. I said, no, I don't like this at all. And so I said, no, I want a seat at the Knights of the round table, is how I described it.
[00:08:10] Kristie: I want a company small enough where. My voice matters. I can have an impact. I can see how I am making a contribution as opposed to sitting in, Tommy Hilfiger's showroom in New York with my president, my GMM, my DMM, myself, and two other buyers, while they bring their, cohort of people,
[00:08:30] Kristie: and I'm just basically became the secretary. So, I think it was, scary. But it was the right move, the business has just gone to a place where I, work off referrals, right? And I became that person.
[00:08:46] Matt: It's amazing to think about that
[00:08:48] Matt: at one point you were afraid of focusing on this because I think the transition from founder selling to figuring out how to create a sales org, gosh, the tentacles on that topic [00:09:00] is, are just incredible, but like, first off, have been a founder, have been the first person to create sales bet an org, have done a good job and a shitty job at both.
[00:09:09] Matt: So like I've had a chance to see all of that, and I find that it's all psychology. Getting founders to stop thinking about this is something that they don't wanna do. Like there's a component of that was like, it's almost like you have to embrace it to be able to be okay hiring for it to a certain extent.
[00:09:25] Matt: Tell me more about this experience of like, how, like what are some of the things that you found where you could add a lot of value when you were talking to founders about this transition? Because I think. They're all gonna go through it, and I think this is a really great experience to talk about.
[00:09:38] Kristie: So most times what I started getting the call was from the VC or a founder saying, Hey, we just got money, right?
[00:09:46] Kristie: So they've just gotten some series A funding. We need them to stop selling, go back to their day job, and then we need you to help them figure that out. And so initially I had made some mistakes myself with them, where we went out and we, I was like, I'm gonna find you the [00:10:00] best seller, ever.
[00:10:02] Kristie: And then people, a couple people failed and I was like, oh. Well we didn't do this most important step that now I insist on, which is we have to get everything outta their head and onto paper because there was no playbook, right?
[00:10:16] Kristie: Being salesperson number one. Is a very small group of people who are qualified and capable of doing that and willing to do that. But I decided that, we weren't making it any easier for them. And so, one of the things that I learned is I build out, I help them build out what I call the sales processes,
[00:10:36] Kristie: call it the playbook, tie that out of the CRM system, make sure that that's customized. I get involved, and then I do that, I will do the hiring for them. I call it hiring help because we do it together, it's a team sport. And I basically project manage the hiring process, my team and I with them, we never leave them alone with the candidate.
[00:10:53] Kristie: We don't trust them. We don't think they're qualified to make the right decision. But, before that, [00:11:00] like when I get that call, one of the conversations I have, the get honest with yourself conversation with the founder is, are you truly ready to give the baby up for adoption and hand it over to adoptive parents,
[00:11:13] Kristie: are you really willing to do that? Willing and ready to do that? And then the other conversation I have with them, I got an opportunity to speak at a business of software conference in Raleigh.
[00:11:21] Kristie: And the topic I spoke on was the founder advantage, which is really a disadvantage, right? So can become the disadvantage. But founder advantage is, they, got themselves to $750,000, a million dollars. That's how they got some funding, right? They had to get to a certain level on their own and then
[00:11:37] Kristie: what they didn't understand is when they hand the baby over that that, person's name isn't founder or owner, they did not grow up perhaps in the industry in which they grew up. They did not create the baby over, nine months or, 19 months. And so there's an advantage to founder-led selling because of your Rolodex, because of who you are, because you know everything about the baby, [00:12:00] right?
[00:12:00] Kristie: And so I have to say to them like, this isn't like I'm gonna get all this information outta your head, but you'd still, at the end of the day, you still did things differently than we're gonna do them going forward. I'm gonna take the, good best practices and the things that worked really well for you that got you to a million dollars, but I'm gonna have to put them in a format that someone who isn't, you can use in order to sell.
[00:12:20] Kristie: And so, with those two agreements that you know, I will not be a meddling, parent and, I will be patient. Because even though my sales cycle might be 90 days, their sales cycle might be 120. And that's just, the way it is because you have founder advantages that the But sales rep number one is not gonna have.
[00:12:41] Matt: That's always been the biggest difficulty is the things that, like founders are really good at selling because they get instant credibility. They're literally the ones deep in the wiring of the whole thing. They understand what the core problem was that inspired them to do this in the first place. None of that translates well. [00:13:00] No.
[00:13:00] Matt: No. Yeah. And you can't, and I think this was the mistake I made early on was like, oh, I should go out and hire a fleet of me. Like that's the secret to success when actually not only is that nearly impossible. It's actually not the right idea. Right? The idea is not to replace founder selling with a bunch of mini founders.
[00:13:17] Matt: It's 'cause that's insane. what, was there any particular thing that you found as you would talk to founders that maybe you, as you would introduce candidates or something, was there a thing that you found that would flip the light on where they would be like, oh, I get it. This is just totally different Because I feel like explaining it is not the same thing.
[00:13:38] Matt: It's not quite there.
[00:13:40] Kristie: I just think hearing the candidates, so, I, lead those interviews, right? Okay. And so, one of the first things I'm looking for is similar or same motion, right? Again, it's hard enough to be seller number one, two, or three without, you were selling a six figure product and this is a $35,000 product.
[00:13:58] Kristie: Your sales cycle was nine months. [00:14:00] This is 90 days. Like, so the first thing I'm, asking for I go, tell me every step in the process.
[00:14:05] Kristie: Like where do leads come from? What do you do with that? How does it go through? 'cause in general, I'm hiring what I call a full cycle seller. Right? At this point, we're not hiring probably an SDR and an AE. We're hiring a full cycle seller.
[00:14:17] Kristie: So you have one person doing things so you can figure out what's working, what's not working with, as we move away from founder-led selling. But I think like, just the question, like I ask them what their superpower is. I asked them about the most creative thing they've done to close a deal.
[00:14:31] Kristie: I've asked them things that the founder probably hadn't thought about because they didn't have to do these things. And so, we obviously ask a lot of sales competencies. And then I asked them about their, biggest, I go, I call it the biggest heroic failure. I said, you got your, you went to the dry cleaner, you got your Superman outfit 'cause it's all clean now because you were gonna save the day, right?
[00:14:52] Kristie: You were about to close the big deal. It was in the bag. And then Kryptonite showed up and it didn't happen. [00:15:00] And, I wanna make them human too, with the founder, right? Because the founder also lost deals. Right. And everybody loses deals. I said there's no way that, like, in SaaS, we're lucky if we get a 20% close rate, but right now it's probably closer to 15%, which means 85% of deals are not closing.
[00:15:15] Kristie: And so it's just as important to understand how people handle that. I don't believe in, no, I believe in not right now. So I call 'em NRNs. And so, how are, and so to me, nurturing is one of the most important skills that, a marketing and sales person, the marketing department perhaps partnered with the sales person can have.
[00:15:35] Kristie: Because sales is all about timing. And so if the not right now happens, then you know, there's 85% of your pipeline that are future buyers. And, but most people, again, like one of the things I, one of the formalizations of processes I put together is a formal nurture strategy. But most people don't have anything written down on how they're gonna nurture a, not right now, whether that happens before they ever get [00:16:00] into the pipeline, like, call number one, no thanks, or whether that happens midway through the pipeline.
[00:16:05] Kristie: After that first interview, that first candidate, and we debrief and they're like, wow.
[00:16:09] Kristie: They're like, I would've not, those are questions I would not have asked. And I was like, that's right. And that's also why even sometimes I'm working with companies that have a recruiter or an HR department, I insist on running the phone screen myself.
[00:16:21] Kristie: If you wanna go through the resumes and pick them out and send them over to us, that's fine. I'll teach them how to do that, but I need to do the, we need to do the phone screens, like it's just a different hire.
[00:16:29] Speaker 5: Today's episode is brought to you by Hunter.io, the B2B lead generation platform made for every professional, whether it's prospecting, fundraising, recruiting, link building, or just trying to connect with the right people, hunter makes it easy.
[00:16:45] Matt: Thinking about the other end of the process, a bit changing gears you, how many, founders come back to you and say, gosh, I need to be in those sales calls. I get so much value outta talking to folks. It helps me [00:17:00] understand my pipeline. How, Kristie, how do I reintegrate myself with my sales team without stepping on toes and without turning into the founder in every single call and trying to take over the entire call, like,
[00:17:12] Matt: Yep.
[00:17:14] Matt: how does that come up and like real, Yeah. How do you deal with that?
[00:17:17] Kristie: So it's a double-edged sword because a lot of times the first sales leader is the founder. So we move them from founder-led seller to the first sales leader of the organization. And so I have to work with them on that as well.
[00:17:29] Kristie: And I say to them, hey, listen, like I do think there's a place for you in the sales cycle, but I think it's towards the end. Or somewhere in the middle where you send an email to their, C-level equivalent, or, our C-level, person over there or whatever, whoever that would be.
[00:17:47] Kristie: And just introduce yourself. Just say you're here if you need them. If you have any questions, like, I just got the update from Matt and things sound like they're going really well, but I just wanted to introduce myself. If there's anything that I can do while [00:18:00] you and Matt are working together, please let me know.
[00:18:02] Kristie: I'm happy to help or have a conversation and then, so I always say like, the best time to do that is not when things are falling apart at the end. The best time to do that right is early on when things are going well. And nobody, the pressure is lower. 'Cause sales is all about tension.
[00:18:18] Kristie: Closing deals is all about increasing the tension. And so, I think there's definitely, and I would never want to not, like I always say, the best person to close the deal at the company is whoever the best deal to close the deal at the company is, right? And that could be the founder at some point.
[00:18:32] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. Actually bringing them back in as a closer is, often a very good technique.
[00:18:37] Matt: I want to talk about something about the sales process that both, honestly, if you're a founder and you're doing sales, this might often be the part you're the worst at.
[00:18:48] Matt: But even if you're a new seller, and I think some of the folks who probably read your books, this probably, I hope catches them like it did me. And that is that, I forget [00:19:00] exactly how you put it, but the summary is like taking responsibility for outcomes. Like, I don't think I've ever put it that way,
[00:19:07] Matt: talk more about that.
[00:19:09] Matt: How did you come to that? Like, do you find that that's more about the seller or the founder or both? Do people resonate with this idea as well as I think they should.
[00:19:19] Kristie: Yeah. I call it creating a culture of accountability. And a lot of times, in fairness to the world that I live in. That hasn't really been necessary to a certain extent, right?
[00:19:29] Kristie: I mean like, you've got X number of employees, half of them are developers, they're all in, they're working hard. But we've not had other, like, other departments haven't appeared yet, right? Marketing hasn't appeared, sales hasn't appeared. They're, you know, finance hasn't appeared perhaps, maybe you've got a fractional CFO.
[00:19:45] Kristie: And so the culture of accountability, like, people, again, especially in my B2B startup world, my Silicon Valley life, culture is everything.
[00:19:53] Kristie: Oh yeah.
[00:19:54] Kristie: And, but the way they talked about culture didn't make sense to me. 'cause it was more about, I grew up in [00:20:00] the, beer fridge, ping pong, right?
[00:20:04] Kristie: Like, jeans and sandals on boys, era, right? So, yep. Yeah. So like, it was, when they talked about culture, it wasn't a culture of accountability. It was this like, it was like this playground, like we're creating an adult playground. That you get to come to every day and, lunch will be free on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
[00:20:22] Kristie: And then masseuse comes in on Thursdays. And I was like, okay. Like, and so why the hell would anybody wanna leave?
[00:20:28] Speaker 4: Yeah, right.
[00:20:29] Kristie: Why would anybody wanna leave the playground? The playground is fun. Every day is fun. but, at some point, like, someone's gotta clean up the playground mess. You can't just leave every day. So I, started, I say there are two reasons why, everyone fails companies and people alike. It's lack of discipline. And lack of accountability culture. It wasn't that things were complete chaos because they didn't have it.
[00:20:54] Kristie: But I would walk in sometimes and there would be maybe a seller or there'd been a seller and I would start to ask questions about [00:21:00] quota. I would start to ask questions about activity expectations. And it doesn't surprise me anymore, but it might, it surprises a lot of people when I say, about a third of my clients who have somebody or have been doing who move past founder led selling?
[00:21:14] Kristie: But normally I came in because it's not working, have a seller, but they don't have any kind of accountability whatsoever. And so, and I said everybody needs, like if you think about going back to childhood, like everybody needs guardrails, right?
[00:21:27] Kristie: I say to, and I say to leaders across the board, sales or, anything. I want somebody when somebody comes home at night and the person that asks them, the cat, the dog, the spouse, the girlfriend, the boyfriend, the child, how was your day at work?
[00:21:42] Kristie: They should be able to answer that. They should know when they leave the door, so to speak, and come in the other one, whether they had a good day or a bad day. But when you haven't laid out what the expectations are, then that answer becomes, oh, it was fine.
[00:21:56] Kristie: They know they had a bad day. If they lost a deal, they know they had a good day if they won a deal. [00:22:00] But Matt, as you know, like those are a lot of days in between that, right?
[00:22:03] Kristie: Right.
[00:22:04] Kristie: So how do you know if the activities you did today equated to a good day or a bad day? That's how I describe it.
[00:22:11] Kristie: I'm like, people should know. People should not be curious, people should not be wondering whether or not they had a good or bad day when somebody asked them the question.
[00:22:19] Matt: Yeah, but you're right. There's so many, I think this is the disconnect and why I love that phrase of taking responsibility for outcomes.
[00:22:27] Matt: It's like I find that the culture of accountability often turns into a culture of accountability of activities, not outcomes. And the activity is what you are doing, right? Did you make a call? Did you send an email? Those are very easily controllable and very low bars, but are you doing something to create an outcome is a very different framing, and I find that that's, with the great sellers I've seen and the ones that have been able to sell me too, part of what they've done effectively is constantly making sure they're getting the next step or it [00:23:00] gets orchestrated.
[00:23:01] Matt: Identifying blockers early, making sure those get removed. If they're doing it right, it never feels like I'm being handled or managed or sold. It's a blessing. I was like, oh God, thank goodness they scheduled the next call.
[00:23:16] Kristie: Someone's got a plan.
[00:23:18] Matt: Yeah, and that's ultimately what you want, right?
[00:23:20] Matt: If you're the decision maker is help me make the decision. And sometimes that means managing my schedule a little bit, managing the next steps, managing, and I find that that culture of accountability, the taking responsibility for outcomes really. For me, that was a great way of framing that. I guess, do you see activities replace outcomes?
[00:23:39] Matt: Like is that the default that a lot of people fall into of thinking, yeah, I'm getting it done right?
[00:23:45] Kristie: Well, and normally when things are bad, right? Yeah. So that's like a punishment. So I was working with a client, I don't know, four or five months ago and, I had to say to the CEO like, Hey, this little game you've got going.
[00:23:58] Kristie: 'cause that's kind of what it was, [00:24:00] where you get, so many points for, making a call and so many points for discovery and so many points for whatever. And you couldn't leave at the end of the week until you had X number of points. I said there was no reason to bring me in to work with this team, which I had worked with previously.
[00:24:15] Kristie: And because I said I don't, I'm about quality, not quantity. And these were like multi-year sellers that you're treating like SDRs and it's just a matter of time before turnover starts to happen. And like it's in complete opposition of what I'm trying to teach them. Which is, instead of trying to get off, get on and off the phone as quickly as possible so you can get your points and get onto the next call.
[00:24:39] Kristie: They'd hired me to also teach them how to write custom and personalized emails of which they were getting zero points for.
[00:24:45] Kristie: We were teaching them to check their brain at the door, right? calling for calling's sake.
[00:24:50] Kristie: First off, that is so not fun.
[00:24:53] Matt: It's the worst.
[00:24:54] Kristie: Would I wanna get up every day just to make 50 calls and leave [00:25:00] 48 voicemails like that is so not fun. Like that job is so unfun, which is why the SDR job's a burnout job.
[00:25:07] Speaker 4: Yeah.
[00:25:08] Kristie: Right? Because we make them do all these unfun things every single day for 18 months before we tell them that they're ready to sell, which they're not.
[00:25:14] Kristie: 'cause they haven't talked to anybody and they haven't done anything, they haven't written a personalized email. I get where people, like I say, panic causes bad decisions. And the number one reason that people panic is, anemic pipelines. And so when you, when the pipeline is lower than it needs to be, then all of a sudden people are like, then leaders push.
[00:25:32] Kristie: Like, they're like, well then we need to do more, like more of what wasn't working?
[00:25:37] Kristie: Right.
[00:25:37] Kristie: Because that's what we're doing, right? We're gonna do more of what wasn't working. 'cause if we do more statistically, that's gonna work out for us. No.
[00:25:45] Matt: I had, I think almost this exact same conversation with somebody yesterday, interestingly enough, where I was like, okay, so what you're talking about is you're gonna fix the volume part of the problem.
[00:25:56] Matt: But what we were just talking about is that it's not converting. [00:26:00] So is fixing the volume issue gonna solve the conversion issue? And if it's not, then is it even worth doing? Okay. One thing you haven't talked about yet,
[00:26:08] Matt: the technology part. The tech stack. There's a lot of people in marketing or sales or growth roles in general. Revenue roles today. Who will come in and they'll tell you, well, the secret is you've gotta hook up these sets of tools and your tech stack needs to look like this. That doesn't seem core to your narrative though.
[00:26:28] Kristie: No. I love a good tech stack. I love a good software, and in fact, they're getting more fun. Right? Hopefully. Like, things that didn't, things that didn't exist last year are popping up and you're like, oh, like, that's cool. We didn't have that before. Yeah. The reason I don't talk a ton about it is because without
[00:26:45] Kristie: good processes, good strategies it just helps you do more of what isn't working more quickly. And so I'm like, okay, like, sounds good, briefs well.
[00:26:55] Kristie: If it's already bad, AI is just gonna make it [00:27:00] bad, more quickly. You're just gonna have more bad, right? I'm now like doubling down on process.
[00:27:07] Kristie: I'm now saying, where you might have been able to be at 80% of good, or you may be able to fly by the seat of your pants a little bit. No, because you're gonna now go into an AI tool and give it a prompt of how you want something done. And if your prompt isn't, crisp and, very succinct and what exactly you want, then if, your process is half-baked,
[00:27:33] Kristie: then that's just gonna do something half baked a lot faster than you were doing it before.
[00:27:38] Matt: It sounds a little bit like VC funding in that regard. If you're doing it wrong, adding more money to it is only gonna help. that's ultimately what VC is really about, right?
[00:27:50] Matt: Yeah.
[00:27:50] Matt: You raise money so you can go faster at doing whatever it is you're doing.
[00:27:53] Matt: You seem to have a very pragmatic point of view about VC, like I do, which is good. You're not [00:28:00] obsessed with it.
[00:28:01] Kristie: I say to founders like, Hey, don't just take the money.
[00:28:04] Kristie: The reason to get VC money is not just the money, it should be the experience level. So who's gonna sit on the board? Who's gonna mentor you? I remember one of my very early founders, it was a cybersecurity company, and it was actually, client number one, he kept coming to me with questions
[00:28:21] Kristie: and I go, I'm sorry, I'm just confused. I'm like, there are people in that organization that gave you money that know the answer to these questions. Why aren't you getting that kind of help? And I had to reach out to the VC, the managing partner who put me in there and said, Hey, you guys are failing this guy, and why aren't we doing quarterly portfolio, three day sessions if he's got these questions, everybody's got these questions.
[00:28:48] Kristie: You're, like I said to him, I'm like, all of these people, like all the VC, the managing partners that I work with, general partners, they've all been there, done that, right? And that's why they have the money.
[00:28:59] Kristie: They [00:29:00] wouldn't have money to invest had something not gone well along the way.
[00:29:04] Kristie: I do a lot of work mentorship with accelerators and I worked with an organization that just coached people on pitch decks and, getting these pitch meetings.
[00:29:12] Kristie: And I would just say like, hey, don't just take money to take money. Because at some point you're gonna hit a wall and you're gonna need someone to help you, like figure it out, pick up some pieces or whatever.
[00:29:25] Kristie: And so make sure that the backbone of the VC, has the kind of people that you think are gonna help you and that they're, the kind of people that are gonna sit on your board. So, and I also say like, I get tired of hearing because of the world I live in. I get tired of hearing like, 67% of sellers are missing quota and 72% of sellers are missing quota and whatever that percentage du jour is for the day. And I'm like, I know, but the VCs are putting unrealistic expectations and like, so I said, but where does that start? That starts with them giving you an unrealistic goal, so they get their [00:30:00] money back and then you go and divide that by the three sellers you have when you really need five.
[00:30:06] Kristie: Like no one, like, it's just you're putting unfair expectations on people. So I say yes, there are lots of reasons why sellers aren't hitting quota, but some of them are VC related. So yes, I have a very pragmatic view. I'm, there are lots of things that I could talk about in this topic, but I'd like to see more diversity.
[00:30:24] Kristie: Yep.
[00:30:25] Kristie: I'd like to see more women. I'd like to see more minorities within the VC world. And I just read an article the other day about a, women supporting women funding women out of California. And, we did that and they, this happened in
[00:30:40] Kristie: St. Louis too. We had a group of women that came together. The founder of Build-A-Bear is here out of St. Louis. Nice. Yeah. And, Maxine Clark and she started a VC with women for women. Good for her. But we shouldn't have, I know. Good for her. I love that. Like I love her for that. I got involved, but we shouldn't have to do that.
[00:30:59] Matt: [00:31:00] Agreed. Yeah. Right. A hundred percent. It's one of the first things I look at actually like, I, like you, I call it a pragmatic point of view because if you talk to a lot of early stage or first time founders, they don't think there are options. Like bootstrapping is what you do if you're apparently a nerd or something.
[00:31:19] Matt: And VC is what you do if you're gonna build a company. And I'm like, is it though, like if you're gonna build a big company, probably if you're gonna build something that has to move really quickly, yeah, probably. But does every single, like, I think SaaS has proven enough now that you don't, you don't have to de-risk that first million.
[00:31:38] Matt: I just love it when people are rational about VC because I think what also happens is VCs end up dealing with a lot of folks that aren't rational about it. And like they just are like, yeah, look, yes, the VC's job is to put pressure because their whole thing is to try to replace, it's to get you to pay back.
[00:31:54] Matt: But like, yeah, people think about it like it's the only way you can build a company. And I find it's [00:32:00] often the wrong way to build a lot of the companies that I'm talking to, right? Whether that's the founding or whether they're advising or whatever, it's just like, it's, often misaligned. I watched a really, really, incredible AI company who was working on exactly the right problem with the exact sort of approach to the technology that OpenAI was.
[00:32:21] Matt: And honestly things like board dynamics and how much the valuation was too early. Like all of these were things that ended up disrupting the company, not the tech, not whether or not they were building a product. And that to me is an, example I see more often than not, which is unfortunate. I'm, fully for VC.
[00:32:41] Matt: Me too.
[00:32:41] Matt: In the right circumstances, and I think you're right. Agree.
[00:32:43] Matt: It's, as a network function. Amazing. I love, yeah, I love talking to you about this. This is fun. Thanks. Okay, I think we're getting close to time and I haven't even asked you where in Kansas you grew up?
[00:32:59] Kristie: I [00:33:00] grew up in several places in Kansas, but I spent most of my time in Topeka, but I, spent some of my formative years in a Mennonite community called Garnett.
[00:33:08] Kristie: Okay.
[00:33:09] Kristie: Yep. we were not Mennonites, but my dad worked for the United Telephone Company, so we got bumped around a lot. So I lived in this small Mennonite community, which it was an amazing experience. We, the school was K-12 all in one building.
[00:33:21] Kristie: Wow.
[00:33:21] Kristie: It was really Little House on the Prairie.
[00:33:24] Kristie: and then we moved from there to Russell, Kansas, which I affectionately call the armpit of Kansas. Sorry to Bob. My apologies to Bob Joel grew up in Russell, but it is awful. It was, I literally thought tumbleweeds were only something that you saw on the Road Runner, cartoon until I moved to Russell, Kansas.
[00:33:41] Kristie: Until you got there.
[00:33:42] Kristie: And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, I just thought that was a cartoon thing. I had no idea that tumbleweeds actually existed. But yeah, so, no, I spent, time in three cities, and then Lawrence, like, as you know, I'm a Jayhawk, so spent four years in Lawrence. So yeah, I have very fond memories of Kansas, but yes, [00:34:00] I, spent a lot of, I lived around the state.
[00:34:04] Matt: You had a lot of mindfulness time in Lawrence.
[00:34:07] Kristie: Yes I did. That's so fair.
[00:34:11] Matt: I grew up in Wichita and it's just,
[00:34:12] Kristie: Oh, I spent time in Wichita.
[00:34:14] Matt: That was my upbringing. And I've mentioned to James a handful of times that like, no, you don't understand. Basketball season is the real season. And,
[00:34:23] Matt: Go Shockers.
[00:34:25] Matt: it's Shockers and Jayhawks.
[00:34:26] Matt: Go Shockers. That's right.
[00:34:27] Matt: Man, there's Shockers. That's right. Mean every childhood team I had was either a Jayhawk or a Shocker for like, a solid 10 years of my life.
[00:34:35] Kristie: Nice. And so you didn't, lean into the purple people, as I affectionately call them.
[00:34:39] Matt: No, when you have Wichita State and KU,
[00:34:41] Kristie: You were closer, you were closer to the purple people than you were to the Jayhawks.
[00:34:44] Matt: Well, not, but I grew up a Shocker, so that was,
[00:34:47] Matt: Yeah, okay, that was
[00:34:48] Matt: my alma mater originally and,
[00:34:50] Matt: There we go.
[00:34:51] Matt: I was watching Shocker games from the time I was three years old probably, or maybe even younger.
[00:34:55] Matt: Nice.
[00:34:56] Matt: Did you ever get back? Did you ever go back to Kansas?
[00:34:59] Kristie: Oh, all the time.
[00:34:59] Kristie: [00:35:00] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm a season ticket holder for basketball and football. And I have relatives that still live in Kansas City, so we, I'm there all the time, so, yes.
[00:35:08] Matt: But you're in St. Louis, right?
[00:35:10] Kristie: I am, yep. It's, yep.
[00:35:11] Kristie: That's a haul.
[00:35:12] Kristie: The hardest days are the down and backs. Yeah. We play out, we play the purple people Saturday at 11, so we decided not to leave at 5:30 in the morning.
[00:35:22] Kristie: So we're leaving Friday night, after my son gets off work. So we'll leave about five. And then I, asked him, I'm like, is it okay? We've got so many people we can stay with and hang with. But again, as I've talked to you, I've been traveling for so many weeks. I said,
[00:35:34] Kristie: Yeah.
[00:35:35] Kristie: is it okay if we come back after the game on Saturday as opposed to spending the night and coming back on Sunday, he goes, yep.
[00:35:39] Kristie: I'm like, thank you.
[00:35:41] Matt: I feel like one of the longest drives ever was after KU wins in Allen Fieldhouse and then driving back to Wichita. That was, I felt like it was three times longer than the, game. It wasn't actually.
[00:35:52] Matt: Well, you've been to the fog.
[00:35:54] Matt: Of course. Yeah. That's, you got a bucket list item right there.
[00:35:57] Matt: That's right.
[00:35:57] Matt: If you're even remotely a basketball fan.
[00:35:59] Kristie: We [00:36:00] do, we appreciate it. I know we do. But it is like every time I go, like I can get a little teary, like just seeing, like when they play the hype video on the screen, like, and I see all the past players. And that's what I think this is the hardest thing for me right now with NIL. I was pro paying them.
[00:36:16] Kristie: I was all in. I didn't know how we were gonna do it. I didn't know how we're gonna figure it out. I was all in on paying them. And now it's like my worst nightmare because all these, one and dones. Like, I just saw the, I just saw what we think is the starting lineup for the basketball team. And only two, like, and only one player was there last year.
[00:36:36] Kristie: And so I said, I just, I for, I screenshotted forwarded it to my son. I was like, here we go again. Learning new names and numbers every year. Gotta learn new names and numbers. And I was like, because it was so much fun, I just, Christian Braun, just got a new contract with the, Denver Nuggets for $125M.
[00:36:52] Kristie: But I, heard an interview last night with him that said, I stayed in my high school and played for my high school for four years. I stayed at KU, [00:37:00] like I went to KU, I didn't leave KU, I graduated from KU, and I wanna do the same with the Nuggets.
[00:37:05] Kristie: And I thought, wow, kid, like, he's got four more years. But I said, wow, kid, no one does that anymore.
[00:37:12] Kristie: Nobody.
[00:37:12] Kristie: Like, if you, really, like, if you can really end your career with the Denver Nuggets, like you started your career like you did at KU and you did at high school, I said, you'll be one of like a, like you'll be the unicorn in your world.
[00:37:23] Matt: Yeah, it's yeah, it is weird. Oh, I feel like that whole transience of careers these days.
[00:37:31] Matt: Right.
[00:37:32] Matt: It's not even basketball centric, but like in general it feels like everything is a combination of the NIL and the portal.
[00:37:39] Kristie: It's funny that you say that 'cause I can, I make it, I can bring this back to sales really quickly because people like, you get that interview question from the candidate, like, what will make me successful here?
[00:37:48] Kristie: And my answer is, and I'm just not. I'm just like sassy and smart-ass about it. I'm like, if you'll stay three years. If you'll stay three years, but you won't. And so you're just gonna continue to make your life hard because the first year you [00:38:00] don't know what the hell you're doing. You're just figuring it out.
[00:38:02] Kristie: Year two, you've got your, you understand where your superpowers are within the process that we've created, and you're working the process and then you leave 'cause, but if you'd stayed for the third year, all of those 85% of people who didn't buy from you, all those 85% of the NRNs. The phone will start to ring.
[00:38:21] Kristie: The email will start to come in. So I said, if you really wanna be successful, you'll stay three years. And I think, like, I feel the same way about basketball.
[00:38:32] Matt: I couldn't agree more. It's, but most businesses are not very good at figuring out how to keep people for the third year or the fourth year.
[00:38:44] Matt: And I find that. This is a problem we have on both sides of the business. It's not even just whether or not a sales rep can be successful. Organizations have a responsibility to make that.
[00:38:53] Matt: That's right.
[00:38:53] Matt: Appealing.
[00:38:54] Kristie: Well, when the, I just saw a statistic the other day. The average CRO stays [00:39:00] between 12 and 15 months, the median time.
[00:39:02] Kristie: So again, when you're, if you're a seller and you've gone through, if you stayed three years, you could hypothetically have three different leaders in three years versus again, my coach Bill Self, been around a while, right? Larry before him, Roy before him, like they stay around a while, right?
[00:39:23] Kristie: And so I do think you can make a nice parallel, which is when we, yes, the CEO, so, call it the general manager or whatever is, normally around, but not always by the way. But when the top of your umbrella food chain in the top of the sales umbrella. Is turning over every 12 to 15 months, which probably means the VP is doing the same and the director's doing the same.
[00:39:46] Kristie: Yep. Then there's, inconsistency, right? You don't, and then everybody wonders why they're struggling to hit quota.
[00:39:53] Matt: Yeah. And they're not gonna learn what they need to learn to get to the next level. Agreed. Well done
[00:39:58] Matt: bringing it back by the way.
[00:39:59] Matt: Thank [00:40:00] you.
[00:40:01] Kristie: That was crafty.
[00:40:02] Kristie: I can make a sports analogy and a business analogy work every day.
[00:40:05] Matt: Perfect. This was really great.
[00:40:07] Matt: Great. Kristie, thank you. I think the audience is really gonna appreciate it.
[00:40:10] Matt: It was great to meet you.
[00:40:11] Kristie: Matt, thanks so much for having me on.
[00:40:13] Speaker 2: Once again, thank you to Christie for joining today's episode out Fox. If you liked what you heard, please like, subscribe, and explore even more of the Outfox community by visiting www outfoxed hunter io. She was Christy Jones. That was Matt Thorpe. Amber. We're out of time.